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	<title>Comments on: An Essay on Boardgame Nostalgia</title>
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	<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/</link>
	<description>Five veteran gamers, plus special guests, share their insights, rants, and raves about all things gaming, especially board games and RPGs.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: One Fat Pug</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-51528</link>
		<dc:creator>One Fat Pug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-51528</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One of the tragedies of the Eurogame 'revolution' is the short attention span it has promoted in gamers.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Being a gamer from way back, I remember the German game revolution (before they were called Eurogames) and received it with enthusiasm. The shorter games with simpler rules requiring fewer players were revolutionary and I've purchased many of them (hundreds, in fact). I give that background so that one doesn't get the false impression that I'm speaking out of ignorance or prejudice.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Some of the Eurogames have brought revolutionary mechanics and most have certainly made the gaming experience more accessible to those who have limited time, but many of the games also tend to lack the depth and dimension of the classic American games (or those styled after them) and they often lead to a shorter-is-better attitude that denies players the richer experience of the longer, deeper games. Some players like to play the lighter, quicker Eurogames and others enjoy the rich themes of games like Dune or Republic of Rome, but the difference is the taste of the player and not necessarily a problem with the game.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dune is an older game and, yes, it has some very dated components, but the game itself is solid.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are a couple problems (off the top of my head) with the experience of the writer.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1) There is a problem with alliances. Almost all players use a house rule that increases the number of strongholds required to win (4 strongholds for a 2-player alliance). I think that this was actually written into the rules of the newer, French edition. Personally, I prefer to also play without 3-player alliances. My group knows better than to form them, but you can just make it a rule and be done with it. Does this mean that the game is broken? Not at all. Many games need small adjustments to optimize them, and Dune is no exception.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2) No veteran players were involved. Dune is a very deep game, and the strategy can be non-intuitive, so having a little advice at the table can be very helpful for new players.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dune is really a game that has everything going for it. 
--Unlike many Euros, it is not purely deterministic. Although it doesn't have dice, it still has factors involved that are random enough to prevent the cold, clockwork determinism that many Eurogames suffer from, and that prevent newer players from having any chance whatsoever at the game. Blind bidding is one of these factors.
--Players who know the game rarely 'sit out' a turn. The diplomacy factor keeps everyone involved whether or not they are in an alliance. Dune is a game of delicate balance and sometimes it takes negotiation 'outside' of an alliance to accomplish one's goals or to simply prevent a win. An experienced player will encourage this in other players, thus enriching everyone's gaming experience.
--Dune rewards experience. Although it's not deterministic, there is a lot to learn about the game and clever, experienced players will become very dangerous in Battle - one of the most difficult portions of the game to master.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I could go on, but will probably just write an article about this over on boardgame geek.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The number three rated game on Boardgame Geek (last time I checked) is Twilight Struggle. This game is clearly outstanding and very new. No one can claim nostalgia about it's popularity, but many players I've talked to fail to 'get it' the first few times and abandon it claiming that it is imbalanced or flawed in one way or another. I've convinced a couple of them to hang in there and they have discovered the game for the gem that it is. Dune is similar.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If one plans on playing Dune once or twice, then the opinion of someone who has played the game a few times will serve them just fine. They won't get anything more out of the game in a couple plays than they will from a review by a person who has played a few times.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If, on the other hand, one is willing to give Dune a real chance, then they should take the opinion of someone who has played dozens of times and who is willing to dedicate their precious gaming time to this long-ish game, in spite of having a collection of over 700 games at hand from which to choose. Someone like me. ;-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So the game is characterized as ugly and out of date (to paraphrase). I have to agree with the former, but strongly disagree with the latter – and I’d much rather play my excellent but ugly game than many of the shallow but pretty games in my collection.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Feel free to look me up on www.boardgamegeek.com userid: "One Fat Pug" to discuss this further.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the tragedies of the Eurogame &#8216;revolution&#8217; is the short attention span it has promoted in gamers.</p>
<p>Being a gamer from way back, I remember the German game revolution (before they were called Eurogames) and received it with enthusiasm. The shorter games with simpler rules requiring fewer players were revolutionary and I&#8217;ve purchased many of them (hundreds, in fact). I give that background so that one doesn&#8217;t get the false impression that I&#8217;m speaking out of ignorance or prejudice.</p>
<p>Some of the Eurogames have brought revolutionary mechanics and most have certainly made the gaming experience more accessible to those who have limited time, but many of the games also tend to lack the depth and dimension of the classic American games (or those styled after them) and they often lead to a shorter-is-better attitude that denies players the richer experience of the longer, deeper games. Some players like to play the lighter, quicker Eurogames and others enjoy the rich themes of games like Dune or Republic of Rome, but the difference is the taste of the player and not necessarily a problem with the game.</p>
<p>Dune is an older game and, yes, it has some very dated components, but the game itself is solid.</p>
<p>There are a couple problems (off the top of my head) with the experience of the writer.</p>
<p>1) There is a problem with alliances. Almost all players use a house rule that increases the number of strongholds required to win (4 strongholds for a 2-player alliance). I think that this was actually written into the rules of the newer, French edition. Personally, I prefer to also play without 3-player alliances. My group knows better than to form them, but you can just make it a rule and be done with it. Does this mean that the game is broken? Not at all. Many games need small adjustments to optimize them, and Dune is no exception.</p>
<p>2) No veteran players were involved. Dune is a very deep game, and the strategy can be non-intuitive, so having a little advice at the table can be very helpful for new players.</p>
<p>Dune is really a game that has everything going for it.<br />
&#8211;Unlike many Euros, it is not purely deterministic. Although it doesn&#8217;t have dice, it still has factors involved that are random enough to prevent the cold, clockwork determinism that many Eurogames suffer from, and that prevent newer players from having any chance whatsoever at the game. Blind bidding is one of these factors.<br />
&#8211;Players who know the game rarely &#8217;sit out&#8217; a turn. The diplomacy factor keeps everyone involved whether or not they are in an alliance. Dune is a game of delicate balance and sometimes it takes negotiation &#8216;outside&#8217; of an alliance to accomplish one&#8217;s goals or to simply prevent a win. An experienced player will encourage this in other players, thus enriching everyone&#8217;s gaming experience.<br />
&#8211;Dune rewards experience. Although it&#8217;s not deterministic, there is a lot to learn about the game and clever, experienced players will become very dangerous in Battle - one of the most difficult portions of the game to master.</p>
<p>I could go on, but will probably just write an article about this over on boardgame geek.</p>
<p>The number three rated game on Boardgame Geek (last time I checked) is Twilight Struggle. This game is clearly outstanding and very new. No one can claim nostalgia about it&#8217;s popularity, but many players I&#8217;ve talked to fail to &#8216;get it&#8217; the first few times and abandon it claiming that it is imbalanced or flawed in one way or another. I&#8217;ve convinced a couple of them to hang in there and they have discovered the game for the gem that it is. Dune is similar.</p>
<p>If one plans on playing Dune once or twice, then the opinion of someone who has played the game a few times will serve them just fine. They won&#8217;t get anything more out of the game in a couple plays than they will from a review by a person who has played a few times.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, one is willing to give Dune a real chance, then they should take the opinion of someone who has played dozens of times and who is willing to dedicate their precious gaming time to this long-ish game, in spite of having a collection of over 700 games at hand from which to choose. Someone like me. ;-)</p>
<p>So the game is characterized as ugly and out of date (to paraphrase). I have to agree with the former, but strongly disagree with the latter – and I’d much rather play my excellent but ugly game than many of the shallow but pretty games in my collection.</p>
<p>Feel free to look me up on <a href="http://www.boardgamegeek.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.boardgamegeek.com</a> userid: &#8220;One Fat Pug&#8221; to discuss this further.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebay Shopper</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-46947</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebay Shopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-46947</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I remember this game from back in the day!  I believe its not that the game is/was so great, it's the nostalgia effect (people wanting now what they had then) that makes the prices as they are on ebay.  The game itself was so-so as I remember.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember this game from back in the day!  I believe its not that the game is/was so great, it&#8217;s the nostalgia effect (people wanting now what they had then) that makes the prices as they are on ebay.  The game itself was so-so as I remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Hertzog</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-4563</link>
		<dc:creator>Hertzog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-4563</guid>
		<description>We've printed and played this game 3 times now; each of the 3 games were very different and very exciting.

I do believe Dune is worth the hype; but not $100 noooo :-/  Especially considering my country (South Africa)'s exchange rate :-p

As a side note, we also play A Game Of Thrones regularly, and generally will decide between the two based on whether we are 5 or 6 players.  They're both great games after all ;-)

Hertzog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve printed and played this game 3 times now; each of the 3 games were very different and very exciting.</p>
<p>I do believe Dune is worth the hype; but not $100 noooo :-/  Especially considering my country (South Africa)&#8217;s exchange rate :-p</p>
<p>As a side note, we also play A Game Of Thrones regularly, and generally will decide between the two based on whether we are 5 or 6 players.  They&#8217;re both great games after all ;-)</p>
<p>Hertzog</p>
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		<title>By: Yamato-Soft Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Slamdance: The Controversy</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2893</link>
		<dc:creator>Yamato-Soft Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Slamdance: The Controversy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2893</guid>
		<description>[...] Slamdance: The Controversy  As the few of you who read blogs other than this one may be aware, a large controversy is bubbling about the Slamdance Guerrilla Gamemaker Competition. This controversy came to my attention via numerous blog and news reports of contestants withdrawing their games from the competition following the organizer&#8217;s decision to first accept and then drop the game &#8220;Super Columbine Massacre&#8221;, a lovely game of re-enacting the merciless slaughter of bucketfuls of defenseless children while the real-life victims are still warm in their graves. And so the nature of the controversy is patently obvious to all: who the heck chose the name &#8220;Slamdance&#8221; for a video game competition? Is this supposed to hearken back to once-cool cultural touchstones like &#8220;breakdance&#8221; or to associate with the totally uncool &#8220;Dance Dance Revolution&#8221; craze? In other news, Headz Games continues its descendancy from potential employer of 1,500 people and salvation for the town of Parrsboro, Nova Scotia, to filing for bankruptcy. And there ends that. d21 follows up yesterday&#8217;s board game article with a great post about the old game of Dune. And along with many others, I will point to an amazing work of journalism by Michael Totten, who travels through southern Lebanon and gives us a real look at what&#8217;s happening there, post-war. Yehuda [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Slamdance: The Controversy  As the few of you who read blogs other than this one may be aware, a large controversy is bubbling about the Slamdance Guerrilla Gamemaker Competition. This controversy came to my attention via numerous blog and news reports of contestants withdrawing their games from the competition following the organizer&#8217;s decision to first accept and then drop the game &#8220;Super Columbine Massacre&#8221;, a lovely game of re-enacting the merciless slaughter of bucketfuls of defenseless children while the real-life victims are still warm in their graves. And so the nature of the controversy is patently obvious to all: who the heck chose the name &#8220;Slamdance&#8221; for a video game competition? Is this supposed to hearken back to once-cool cultural touchstones like &#8220;breakdance&#8221; or to associate with the totally uncool &#8220;Dance Dance Revolution&#8221; craze? In other news, Headz Games continues its descendancy from potential employer of 1,500 people and salvation for the town of Parrsboro, Nova Scotia, to filing for bankruptcy. And there ends that. d21 follows up yesterday&#8217;s board game article with a great post about the old game of Dune. And along with many others, I will point to an amazing work of journalism by Michael Totten, who travels through southern Lebanon and gives us a real look at what&#8217;s happening there, post-war. Yehuda [...]</p>
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		<title>By: umberhulk</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>umberhulk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>Our group played it recently as well, and the only complaint I had was the 3-way win.  We decided it made the game too short (35-40 minutes after rules explanation).  The game seems too 'epic' for it to end with 3 players happily riding into the Arakeen Sunset.  My suggestion was to continue to allow ally groups to be larger than 2 factions but only allow for Solo or 2-way wins.  This way your allied factions would have to break up in order to claim victory, and it could also be a detriment to the 3rd weakest guy in a 3 way alliance as you will probably be picked on first.  

In any case I would highly recommend this game to players who like: Cosmic Encounter, A Game of Thrones, or Who's The Boss.  Although the game is definitely dated in mechanics, the theme carries it through enough to warrant multiple plays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our group played it recently as well, and the only complaint I had was the 3-way win.  We decided it made the game too short (35-40 minutes after rules explanation).  The game seems too &#8216;epic&#8217; for it to end with 3 players happily riding into the Arakeen Sunset.  My suggestion was to continue to allow ally groups to be larger than 2 factions but only allow for Solo or 2-way wins.  This way your allied factions would have to break up in order to claim victory, and it could also be a detriment to the 3rd weakest guy in a 3 way alliance as you will probably be picked on first.  </p>
<p>In any case I would highly recommend this game to players who like: Cosmic Encounter, A Game of Thrones, or Who&#8217;s The Boss.  Although the game is definitely dated in mechanics, the theme carries it through enough to warrant multiple plays.</p>
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		<title>By: MetalJim</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2604</link>
		<dc:creator>MetalJim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2604</guid>
		<description>Kingmaker is a very fair comparison.  The two games are from similar eras.   Dune has much better mechanics than Kingmaker, and is much better balanced.  Just like Kingmaker, fortunes do rise and fall during the course of the game, and the alliances and backstabbing are a big part of the metagame.  In some ways, part of the fun is in knowing who your friends are, but it stops being fun when you run out of friends at the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kingmaker is a very fair comparison.  The two games are from similar eras.   Dune has much better mechanics than Kingmaker, and is much better balanced.  Just like Kingmaker, fortunes do rise and fall during the course of the game, and the alliances and backstabbing are a big part of the metagame.  In some ways, part of the fun is in knowing who your friends are, but it stops being fun when you run out of friends at the table.</p>
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		<title>By: The Emperor</title>
		<link>http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2603</link>
		<dc:creator>The Emperor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d21-gaming.com/blog/2007/01/09/an-essay-on-boardgame-nostalgia/#comment-2603</guid>
		<description>Sounds fun in a hideous back-stabing Diplomacy/Illuminati/Kingmaker/Junta way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds fun in a hideous back-stabing Diplomacy/Illuminati/Kingmaker/Junta way.</p>
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