Look! I just rolled a SUPER critical!
Posted on Friday, October 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm. About DnD, Random.

The Knife Fighter

I was reading MetalJim’s excellent Character Workshop article this week and it reminded me of one of my favorite Archetypes that I haven’t been able to pull off successfully yet. That is the concept of the Knife Fighter. Sometimes good guys, sometimes bad guys, always badass, the knife specialist is right up there with martial artists. It doesn’t matter if they use one knife  or two, if they are a man  or a woman, use massive special effects or not, the knife fighter adds style to every combat they are in. (Note: some of those links are a bit bloody. Watch at own risk.) The only problem is that the rules of D&D over the years haven’t really supported them and I should know. I’ve been trying to make a Knife Fighter for decades.   

 

First edition AD&D was the closest to making the dagger a viable weapon. It did the same damage that it has always done (1d4) but they gave it the best Speed Factor in the game. Double spec with an 18/00 and you are kicking major ass. Of course no one ever used SF. In 3rd Edition you could make a decent knife fighter until 3.5 when they totally nerfed them by ruling that Power Attack didn’t work with them anymore. It was the only way to get good damage out of them that didn’t rely on Sneak Attack. Even the Invisible Blade Prestige Class relied on Sneak Attack dice to make them work and it was published in the Complete Warrior. I had a couple of concepts to try out but they relied heavily the PH2 Fighter with Sneak Attack instead of Bonus Feats and a couple of custom feats. I was also hoping that I could add some Scout into the build because most Knife Fighters move really well thru a fight. Also both a Scouts Skirmish and an Invisible Blades free Sneak Attack work only once a round.

 

I’m still not sure if the knife fighter archetype can be made in 4th edition. It seems like the Rogue is the only class capable of coming close to pulling it off. Again as before the Achilles heel of the dagger is its small damage die. This really stands out in 4th ed because so many powers do x[W] damage. I’ve been looking at the Daggermaster paragon path hoping it would add the boost the concept needs but it doesn’t quite cut it. The Precision path feature is cool but the Action one sucks and the Advantage one might be cool but it doesn’t work that well with the build I am currently working on. I’m going with a Ranger base with Sneak of Shadows. MetalJim was right to make his Gnoll a Rogue first and Ranger second. You need to Sneak Attack all the time and all you need the Ranger for is the two weapon attack powers. I’m hoping that as the system develops (and as I learn to use it) there will be a better option for me. Maybe there will be something in that new Martial book coming out. I hear it’s full of player options like feats and such.

3 responses to 'The Knife Fighter'.

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  1. 1 noisms
    Posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 8:35 pm. About 'The Knife Fighter'.

    I used Speed Factors in AD&D! Still do, in fact. It makes a big difference to how combats play out - and in a good way.

  2. 2 The Emperor
    Posted on October 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pm. About 'The Knife Fighter'.

    Oooh ohhh! I have a human swashbuckler-monk duelist-wannabe PC in Random’s current D&D 3.5 campaign. Rather than a knife fighter, I’ve tried a very similar (but Viking based) concept for her as a small / throwing ax specialist…but her bare hands are better in many cases, since Viking swashbuckler-monk duellest-wannabe’s don’t count throwing axes or daggers as monk weapons. Once and a while she uses the ol’ dagger o’ frost, though.

    Maybe I should approach my GM and discuss all those light weapon, thrown weapon, quick draw, insightful strike, precise shot feats I’ve been pouring into her for the last dozen levels and see if I can get some flexibility. She is the party “fighter” afterall.

  3. 3 KarasDjun
    Posted on October 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am. About 'The Knife Fighter'.

    I too use Speed Factors in my AD&D games! They really only come into play on two very specific instances though (on tied initiatives, and when fighting opponents wielding slow weapons to get multiple attacks). The dagger is a versatile weapon and everyone should carry at least one as a backup weapon (in case of being disarmed, as a concealed weapon, etc.).

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